Showing posts with label visual. Show all posts
Showing posts with label visual. Show all posts

Wednesday, March 7, 2012

Desprate..Please Help

I wrote an application using Visual Studio 2005. This app requires a login that get that accesses SQL Express Data.

I have an XP Pro box set up as a server using DSL Modem and connected to that is a Wireless hub.

I used Network Wizard to set up a Home/Small Business Network on all the computers.

My laptop has XP Pro and has Visual Studio and that's where I wrote the application. It's connect to the wirless hub with a cat 5 cable.

The other laptop has XP Home Edition and is in another room is connected with wirless only.

I set up a user called user1 in SQLExpress with a password. I set it up using MIXED MODE. (SQL server and Windows authentication mode)

Connection String: myCn.ConnectionString = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=ServerBox\SQLEXPRESS;Initial Catalog=db1;User ID=user1;Password=12345"

I turned off Simple Filesharing on the XP Pro box (Server).

In User Accounts XP...Guest account is turned OFF

When I run the applicaton I wrote from MY laptop (connected with cat 5 or Wireless), the application logs me in and I see all the data...It works

BUT when I run the appication from the other laptop (connected with wirless), I get an error : "Login Failed....ServerBox\Guest".

I'M STUMPED...DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ...CAN ANY HELP......

The first thought I had was I wonder if the 2nd laptop has SQL Server database drivers installed... I don't know if XP home installs them by default or not...|||No..the second laptop dosn't have sql drivers installed. Also the 2nd laptop has .net framework 1.1 not .net framework 2, not sure if that matters.|||

Can you verify the connection string used on the failing laptop?

The error message indicates that WIndows authentication was used even though the connection string above uses SQL Server authentication (by specifying User ID).

There should be a "login failed" message also in the SQL Express application event log (use Event Viewer to view), which contains a state number which may provide additional insights - can you paste that here omitting any confidential information (IP addresses, etc.)?

|||

This is the error log...I changed the servername and IP addresses.....

The laptop in question is using XP Home Edition

2006-10-09 06:49:38.81 Server Microsoft SQL Server 2005 - 9.00.2047.00 (Intel X86)
Apr 14 2006 01:12:25
Copyright (c) 1988-2005 Microsoft Corporation
Express Edition with Advanced Services on Windows NT 5.1 (Build 2600: Service Pack 2)

2006-10-09 06:49:38.89 Server (c) 2005 Microsoft Corporation.
2006-10-09 06:49:38.89 Server All rights reserved.
2006-10-09 06:49:38.89 Server Server process ID is 1896.
2006-10-09 06:49:38.89 Server Logging SQL Server messages in file 'c:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL.1\MSSQL\LOG\ERRORLOG'.
2006-10-09 06:49:38.90 Server This instance of SQL Server last reported using a process ID of 1928 at 10/8/2006 3:28:44 PM (local) 10/8/2006 7:28:44 PM (UTC). This is an informational message only; no user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:38.90 Server Registry startup parameters:
2006-10-09 06:49:38.94 Server -d c:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL.1\MSSQL\DATA\master.mdf
2006-10-09 06:49:38.94 Server -e c:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL.1\MSSQL\LOG\ERRORLOG
2006-10-09 06:49:38.94 Server -l c:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL.1\MSSQL\DATA\mastlog.ldf
2006-10-09 06:49:39.05 Server SQL Server is starting at normal priority base (=7). This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:39.05 Server Detected 1 CPUs. This is an informational message; no user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:39.90 Server Using dynamic lock allocation. Initial allocation of 2500 Lock blocks and 5000 Lock Owner blocks per node. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:40.71 Server Database mirroring has been enabled on this instance of SQL Server.
2006-10-09 06:49:40.86 spid5s Starting up database 'master'.
2006-10-09 06:49:41.18 spid5s Recovery is writing a checkpoint in database 'master' (1). This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:41.51 spid5s SQL Trace ID 1 was started by login "sa".
2006-10-09 06:49:41.58 spid5s Starting up database 'mssqlsystemresource'.
2006-10-09 06:49:41.61 spid5s The resource database build version is 9.00.2047. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:42.02 spid8s Starting up database 'model'.
2006-10-09 06:49:42.04 spid5s Server name is 'MYSERVER\SQLEXPRESS'. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:42.04 spid5s Starting up database 'msdb'.
2006-10-09 06:49:42.58 Server A self-generated certificate was successfully loaded for encryption.
2006-10-09 06:49:43.16 spid8s Clearing tempdb database.
2006-10-09 06:49:44.65 spid8s Starting up database 'tempdb'.
2006-10-09 06:49:45.26 spid5s Recovery is complete. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:45.30 spid11s The Service Broker protocol transport is disabled or not configured.
2006-10-09 06:49:45.35 spid11s The Database Mirroring protocol transport is disabled or not configured.
2006-10-09 06:49:46.83 spid11s Service Broker manager has started.
2006-10-09 06:49:47.93 Server Server is listening on [ 'any' <ipv4> 1632].
2006-10-09 06:49:47.93 Server Server local connection provider is ready to accept connection on [ \\.\pipe\SQLLocal\SQLEXPRESS ].
2006-10-09 06:49:47.93 Server Server named pipe provider is ready to accept connection on [ \\.\pipe\MSSQL$SQLEXPRESS\sql\query ].
2006-10-09 06:49:47.96 Server Dedicated administrator connection support was not started because it is not available on this edition of SQL Server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:47.98 Server The SQL Network Interface library could not register the Service Principal Name (SPN) for the SQL Server service. Error: 0x54b. Failure to register an SPN may cause integrated authentication to fall back to NTLM instead of Kerberos. This is an informational message. Further action is only required if Kerberos authentication is required by authentication policies.
2006-10-09 06:49:47.98 Server SQL Server is now ready for client connections. This is an informational message; no user action is required.
2006-10-09 07:03:44.08 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 807 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 07:03:59.40 spid51 Using 'xpstar90.dll' version '2005.90.2047' to execute extended stored procedure 'xp_enumerrorlogs'. This is an informational message only; no user action is required.
2006-10-09 07:44:23.82 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 1499 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 07:44:24.29 spid51 Starting up database 'db1'.
2006-10-09 08:36:00.42 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 2171 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 08:36:08.78 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 08:36:08.78 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 08:47:50.96 spid52 Using 'xplog70.dll' version '2005.90.2047' to execute extended stored procedure 'xp_msver'. This is an informational message only; no user action is required.
2006-10-09 08:50:50.02 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 08:50:50.02 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 09:28:40.91 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 45 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 09:55:25.09 Logon Error: 17806, Severity: 20, State: 2.
2006-10-09 09:55:25.09 Logon SSPI handshake failed with error code 0x8009030c while establishing a connection with integrated security; the connection has been closed. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 09:55:25.09 Logon Error: 18452, Severity: 14, State: 1.
2006-10-09 09:55:25.09 Logon Login failed for user ''. The user is not associated with a trusted SQL Server connection. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 10:26:09.32 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 737 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 10:35:36.64 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 10:35:36.64 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 10:37:21.16 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 10:37:21.16 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 10:38:45.95 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 10:38:45.95 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 11:30:57.70 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 11:30:57.70 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 11:35:06.42 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 11:35:06.42 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 11:37:52.79 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 11:37:52.79 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 12:02:28.78 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 563 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 12:02:30.29 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 12:02:30.29 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 12:24:35.74 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 417 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 12:42:25.36 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 144 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 16:48:01.64 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 13826 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 16:49:19.98 Server SQL Server is terminating because of a system shutdown. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 16:49:27.51 spid11s Service Broker manager has shut down.
2006-10-09 16:49:27.63 spid11s Error: 17054, Severity: 16, State: 1.
2006-10-09 16:49:27.63 spid11s The current event was not reported to the Windows Events log. Operating system error = 1717(The interface is unknown.). You may need to clear the Windows Events log if it is full.
2006-10-09 16:49:28.71 spid5s SQL Trace was stopped due to server shutdown. Trace ID = '1'. This is an informational message only; no user action is required.

|||

Are you able to verify the connection string actually used on the failing machine?

Error messages that specify the user name in the form 'MYSERVER\Guest' typically indicate the use of Windows ("Integrated") authentication?

If you want to use Windows authentication, and your computers are in a workgroup (i.e. they are not joined to a domain) then you must create a Windows account to access the SQL Server with the same name and same password on both the SQL Server machine and every client machine that connects to the SQL Server, and use that account when making database connections.

|||When you say Windows Account, do you mean "User Accounts" on the Client and Server Machines?|||

Yes, "User Accounts" in the sense of the OS (Windows), not SQL Server.

|||

Thanks...I created a user account in the xp pro serverbox identical to the home edition laptop of the user.

I set up the user in sqlexpress........SERVER\laptopuser...Windows Authentication...default Database "db1".. The only thing is that the user never created a password in his home edition xp..So I left the Password BLANK. When he starts his computer there is NO login screen...he just goes to his workspace. Is that a problem, is a password needed.....?.

Anyway when I try to login from the users laptop I get error....cannot open db1.....So it looks like its loggin in to sqlexpress, but can't use db1 database. He is listed under both..Server Security and db1 security....db1

|||

Your initial tact to use SQL Server Authentication seemed like a perfectly adequate solution for your situation (and far more manageable). It's not clear to me how your connection is mapping into Windows Authentication mode (this would have "Trusted_Connection=yes" in the connection string...note the all important underscore, btw)...getting to the bottom of this may help shed some light on why your app is failing to connect.

Can you verify the connection string in your client app? Given your comment about versions of the .Net Framework that were installed, I'm assuming that this is a managed app...if that's correct, you can probably find the connection string by looking for the creation of a new SqlConnection in your code (the connection string would be the parameter to the constructor).

With regards to connecting using a blank password, it should, technically speaking, work fine. However, in terms of allowing access to your database, I would recommend against it.

|||

The settings for SQL Server Authentication are... Connections strings:

myCn.ConnectionString = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=ServerBox\SQLEXPRESS;Initial Catalog=db1;User ID=user1;Password=12345"

The setting for Windows Authentication are... Connection string:

myCn.ConnectionString = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=ServerBox\SQLEXPRESS;Initial Catalog=db1;Integrated Security=SSPI

I change the Application "Setting" to reflect the connection string I will be using, then re-complie the app.

|||Which of these two connection strings works/fails on which client machine?|||

Both fail on 1st client machine (xp home edition)

Both work on 2nd client machine (xp pro)

Also I just wanted to say that in my vb app, in debug..I notice that I get a connection to the db, but when the program continues....and starts reading the "TableAdapter.Fill" I get the error "login Failed for user1.
I Set up the user1 in SQLexpress for SQL Authentication with the default db as 'db1'..I checkd permissions in Instance properties and effective permissions show 'Connect SQL" and 'View Any Database'.
I checked the xsd(xml) and in debug mode when I select to "Preview Data" I ineter username and password and the data comes up. My Settings in the application are set as I stated to SQL Authentication.

Securables show nothing under db1 security and server security. I don't know what securables are...When I tried to add some, then save...and go back to look at them...they are gone ?

I must be missing something in SQL express Users and Logins...but I don't know what.
I'm at a loss ......!!!!!

|||

What is the state of the Error 18456 in SQL Server ERROROLOG when it says "Login Failed for user1"? Is it 16, as it was for MYSERVER\Guest?

State 16 is explained in this blog post:

http://blogs.msdn.com/sql_protocols/archive/2006/02/21/536201.aspx

# re: Understanding "login failed" (Error 18456) error messages in SQL Server 2005

Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:24 AM by Matt Neerincx [MSFT]

State=16 means that the incoming user does not have permissions to log into the target database. So for example say you create a user FOO and set FOO's default database to master, but FOO does not have permissions to log into master.

This can also happen if for example the default database for user FOO is not online (for example the database is marked suspect).

So to check on this theory, try logging the user into some other database and then try using the USE DATABASE command to switch to the target database, you will get a better error message as to the root cause of the failure.

|||

I get Error 18456, Severity 14, State: 8

From what I can gather State 8 means incorrect password. But I double checked and the password I'm using IS CORRECT. ?

The password I'm using is 6 characters all lowercase

Like i said, I connect to the server, but when it comes to accessing the database 'db1', I get the error.

Effective Permissions show: CONNECT SQL and VIEW ANY DATABASE

Desprate..Please Help

I wrote an application using Visual Studio 2005. This app requires a login that get that accesses SQL Express Data.

I have an XP Pro box set up as a server using DSL Modem and connected to that is a Wireless hub.

I used Network Wizard to set up a Home/Small Business Network on all the computers.

My laptop has XP Pro and has Visual Studio and that's where I wrote the application. It's connect to the wirless hub with a cat 5 cable.

The other laptop has XP Home Edition and is in another room is connected with wirless only.

I set up a user called user1 in SQLExpress with a password. I set it up using MIXED MODE. (SQL server and Windows authentication mode)

Connection String: myCn.ConnectionString = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=ServerBox\SQLEXPRESS;Initial Catalog=db1;User ID=user1;Password=12345"

I turned off Simple Filesharing on the XP Pro box (Server).

In User Accounts XP...Guest account is turned OFF

When I run the applicaton I wrote from MY laptop (connected with cat 5 or Wireless), the application logs me in and I see all the data...It works

BUT when I run the appication from the other laptop (connected with wirless), I get an error : "Login Failed....ServerBox\Guest".

I'M STUMPED...DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ...CAN ANY HELP......

The first thought I had was I wonder if the 2nd laptop has SQL Server database drivers installed... I don't know if XP home installs them by default or not...|||No..the second laptop dosn't have sql drivers installed. Also the 2nd laptop has .net framework 1.1 not .net framework 2, not sure if that matters.|||

Can you verify the connection string used on the failing laptop?

The error message indicates that WIndows authentication was used even though the connection string above uses SQL Server authentication (by specifying User ID).

There should be a "login failed" message also in the SQL Express application event log (use Event Viewer to view), which contains a state number which may provide additional insights - can you paste that here omitting any confidential information (IP addresses, etc.)?

|||

This is the error log...I changed the servername and IP addresses.....

The laptop in question is using XP Home Edition

2006-10-09 06:49:38.81 Server Microsoft SQL Server 2005 - 9.00.2047.00 (Intel X86)
Apr 14 2006 01:12:25
Copyright (c) 1988-2005 Microsoft Corporation
Express Edition with Advanced Services on Windows NT 5.1 (Build 2600: Service Pack 2)

2006-10-09 06:49:38.89 Server (c) 2005 Microsoft Corporation.
2006-10-09 06:49:38.89 Server All rights reserved.
2006-10-09 06:49:38.89 Server Server process ID is 1896.
2006-10-09 06:49:38.89 Server Logging SQL Server messages in file 'c:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL.1\MSSQL\LOG\ERRORLOG'.
2006-10-09 06:49:38.90 Server This instance of SQL Server last reported using a process ID of 1928 at 10/8/2006 3:28:44 PM (local) 10/8/2006 7:28:44 PM (UTC). This is an informational message only; no user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:38.90 Server Registry startup parameters:
2006-10-09 06:49:38.94 Server -d c:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL.1\MSSQL\DATA\master.mdf
2006-10-09 06:49:38.94 Server -e c:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL.1\MSSQL\LOG\ERRORLOG
2006-10-09 06:49:38.94 Server -l c:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server\MSSQL.1\MSSQL\DATA\mastlog.ldf
2006-10-09 06:49:39.05 Server SQL Server is starting at normal priority base (=7). This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:39.05 Server Detected 1 CPUs. This is an informational message; no user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:39.90 Server Using dynamic lock allocation. Initial allocation of 2500 Lock blocks and 5000 Lock Owner blocks per node. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:40.71 Server Database mirroring has been enabled on this instance of SQL Server.
2006-10-09 06:49:40.86 spid5s Starting up database 'master'.
2006-10-09 06:49:41.18 spid5s Recovery is writing a checkpoint in database 'master' (1). This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:41.51 spid5s SQL Trace ID 1 was started by login "sa".
2006-10-09 06:49:41.58 spid5s Starting up database 'mssqlsystemresource'.
2006-10-09 06:49:41.61 spid5s The resource database build version is 9.00.2047. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:42.02 spid8s Starting up database 'model'.
2006-10-09 06:49:42.04 spid5s Server name is 'MYSERVER\SQLEXPRESS'. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:42.04 spid5s Starting up database 'msdb'.
2006-10-09 06:49:42.58 Server A self-generated certificate was successfully loaded for encryption.
2006-10-09 06:49:43.16 spid8s Clearing tempdb database.
2006-10-09 06:49:44.65 spid8s Starting up database 'tempdb'.
2006-10-09 06:49:45.26 spid5s Recovery is complete. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:45.30 spid11s The Service Broker protocol transport is disabled or not configured.
2006-10-09 06:49:45.35 spid11s The Database Mirroring protocol transport is disabled or not configured.
2006-10-09 06:49:46.83 spid11s Service Broker manager has started.
2006-10-09 06:49:47.93 Server Server is listening on [ 'any' <ipv4> 1632].
2006-10-09 06:49:47.93 Server Server local connection provider is ready to accept connection on [ \\.\pipe\SQLLocal\SQLEXPRESS ].
2006-10-09 06:49:47.93 Server Server named pipe provider is ready to accept connection on [ \\.\pipe\MSSQL$SQLEXPRESS\sql\query ].
2006-10-09 06:49:47.96 Server Dedicated administrator connection support was not started because it is not available on this edition of SQL Server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 06:49:47.98 Server The SQL Network Interface library could not register the Service Principal Name (SPN) for the SQL Server service. Error: 0x54b. Failure to register an SPN may cause integrated authentication to fall back to NTLM instead of Kerberos. This is an informational message. Further action is only required if Kerberos authentication is required by authentication policies.
2006-10-09 06:49:47.98 Server SQL Server is now ready for client connections. This is an informational message; no user action is required.
2006-10-09 07:03:44.08 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 807 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 07:03:59.40 spid51 Using 'xpstar90.dll' version '2005.90.2047' to execute extended stored procedure 'xp_enumerrorlogs'. This is an informational message only; no user action is required.
2006-10-09 07:44:23.82 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 1499 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 07:44:24.29 spid51 Starting up database 'db1'.
2006-10-09 08:36:00.42 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 2171 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 08:36:08.78 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 08:36:08.78 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 08:47:50.96 spid52 Using 'xplog70.dll' version '2005.90.2047' to execute extended stored procedure 'xp_msver'. This is an informational message only; no user action is required.
2006-10-09 08:50:50.02 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 08:50:50.02 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 09:28:40.91 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 45 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 09:55:25.09 Logon Error: 17806, Severity: 20, State: 2.
2006-10-09 09:55:25.09 Logon SSPI handshake failed with error code 0x8009030c while establishing a connection with integrated security; the connection has been closed. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 09:55:25.09 Logon Error: 18452, Severity: 14, State: 1.
2006-10-09 09:55:25.09 Logon Login failed for user ''. The user is not associated with a trusted SQL Server connection. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 10:26:09.32 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 737 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 10:35:36.64 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 10:35:36.64 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 10:37:21.16 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 10:37:21.16 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 10:38:45.95 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 10:38:45.95 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 11:30:57.70 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 11:30:57.70 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 11:35:06.42 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 11:35:06.42 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 11:37:52.79 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 11:37:52.79 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 12:02:28.78 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 563 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 12:02:30.29 Logon Error: 18456, Severity: 14, State: 16.
2006-10-09 12:02:30.29 Logon Login failed for user 'MYSERVER\Guest'. [CLIENT: 100.100.1.100]
2006-10-09 12:24:35.74 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 417 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 12:42:25.36 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 144 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 16:48:01.64 Server Server resumed execution after being idle 13826 seconds: user activity awakened the server. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 16:49:19.98 Server SQL Server is terminating because of a system shutdown. This is an informational message only. No user action is required.
2006-10-09 16:49:27.51 spid11s Service Broker manager has shut down.
2006-10-09 16:49:27.63 spid11s Error: 17054, Severity: 16, State: 1.
2006-10-09 16:49:27.63 spid11s The current event was not reported to the Windows Events log. Operating system error = 1717(The interface is unknown.). You may need to clear the Windows Events log if it is full.
2006-10-09 16:49:28.71 spid5s SQL Trace was stopped due to server shutdown. Trace ID = '1'. This is an informational message only; no user action is required.

|||

Are you able to verify the connection string actually used on the failing machine?

Error messages that specify the user name in the form 'MYSERVER\Guest' typically indicate the use of Windows ("Integrated") authentication?

If you want to use Windows authentication, and your computers are in a workgroup (i.e. they are not joined to a domain) then you must create a Windows account to access the SQL Server with the same name and same password on both the SQL Server machine and every client machine that connects to the SQL Server, and use that account when making database connections.

|||When you say Windows Account, do you mean "User Accounts" on the Client and Server Machines?|||

Yes, "User Accounts" in the sense of the OS (Windows), not SQL Server.

|||

Thanks...I created a user account in the xp pro serverbox identical to the home edition laptop of the user.

I set up the user in sqlexpress........SERVER\laptopuser...Windows Authentication...default Database "db1".. The only thing is that the user never created a password in his home edition xp..So I left the Password BLANK. When he starts his computer there is NO login screen...he just goes to his workspace. Is that a problem, is a password needed.....?.

Anyway when I try to login from the users laptop I get error....cannot open db1.....So it looks like its loggin in to sqlexpress, but can't use db1 database. He is listed under both..Server Security and db1 security....db1

|||

Your initial tact to use SQL Server Authentication seemed like a perfectly adequate solution for your situation (and far more manageable). It's not clear to me how your connection is mapping into Windows Authentication mode (this would have "Trusted_Connection=yes" in the connection string...note the all important underscore, btw)...getting to the bottom of this may help shed some light on why your app is failing to connect.

Can you verify the connection string in your client app? Given your comment about versions of the .Net Framework that were installed, I'm assuming that this is a managed app...if that's correct, you can probably find the connection string by looking for the creation of a new SqlConnection in your code (the connection string would be the parameter to the constructor).

With regards to connecting using a blank password, it should, technically speaking, work fine. However, in terms of allowing access to your database, I would recommend against it.

|||

The settings for SQL Server Authentication are... Connections strings:

myCn.ConnectionString = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=ServerBox\SQLEXPRESS;Initial Catalog=db1;User ID=user1;Password=12345"

The setting for Windows Authentication are... Connection string:

myCn.ConnectionString = "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=ServerBox\SQLEXPRESS;Initial Catalog=db1;Integrated Security=SSPI

I change the Application "Setting" to reflect the connection string I will be using, then re-complie the app.

|||Which of these two connection strings works/fails on which client machine?|||

Both fail on 1st client machine (xp home edition)

Both work on 2nd client machine (xp pro)

Also I just wanted to say that in my vb app, in debug..I notice that I get a connection to the db, but when the program continues....and starts reading the "TableAdapter.Fill" I get the error "login Failed for user1.
I Set up the user1 in SQLexpress for SQL Authentication with the default db as 'db1'..I checkd permissions in Instance properties and effective permissions show 'Connect SQL" and 'View Any Database'.
I checked the xsd(xml) and in debug mode when I select to "Preview Data" I ineter username and password and the data comes up. My Settings in the application are set as I stated to SQL Authentication.

Securables show nothing under db1 security and server security. I don't know what securables are...When I tried to add some, then save...and go back to look at them...they are gone ?

I must be missing something in SQL express Users and Logins...but I don't know what.
I'm at a loss ......!!!!!

|||

What is the state of the Error 18456 in SQL Server ERROROLOG when it says "Login Failed for user1"? Is it 16, as it was for MYSERVER\Guest?

State 16 is explained in this blog post:

http://blogs.msdn.com/sql_protocols/archive/2006/02/21/536201.aspx

# re: Understanding "login failed" (Error 18456) error messages in SQL Server 2005

Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:24 AM by Matt Neerincx [MSFT]

State=16 means that the incoming user does not have permissions to log into the target database. So for example say you create a user FOO and set FOO's default database to master, but FOO does not have permissions to log into master.

This can also happen if for example the default database for user FOO is not online (for example the database is marked suspect).

So to check on this theory, try logging the user into some other database and then try using the USE DATABASE command to switch to the target database, you will get a better error message as to the root cause of the failure.

|||

I get Error 18456, Severity 14, State: 8

From what I can gather State 8 means incorrect password. But I double checked and the password I'm using IS CORRECT. ?

The password I'm using is 6 characters all lowercase

Like i said, I connect to the server, but when it comes to accessing the database 'db1', I get the error.

Effective Permissions show: CONNECT SQL and VIEW ANY DATABASE

desperate for help! PLEASE!

I installed the reporting service and everytime I start a new porject in
visual studio .net, I get a message saying that it is unable to load the
RSReportDesigner.config file.
I can't find any help online and I can't get into the beta newsgroup...
HELP PLEASE.
Thanks.
EmadI found out what was the problem. The evaluation version does NOT work on
windows XP only 2000. Strange!!!!
-Emad
"Emad Ibrahim" <iemad@.nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uOw3uKI4DHA.632@.TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I installed the reporting service and everytime I start a new porject in
> visual studio .net, I get a message saying that it is unable to load the
> RSReportDesigner.config file.
> I can't find any help online and I can't get into the beta newsgroup...
> HELP PLEASE.
> Thanks.
> Emad
>

Designing SQL2K RS reports using VS 2005 Express

Anyone:
Is it possible to install the SQL Server 2000 Reporting Services design
component for Visual Studio 2003 into Visual Studio 2005 Express to design
reports that will be deployed to Reporting Services running on SQL Server
2000? Thank you in advance for your time.No, this is not possible. RS 2000 Report Designer requires VS 2003.
--
Albert Yen
SQL Server Reporting Services
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"Nikolai Sonin" <NikolaiSonin@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B5728FFD-6C1A-4C59-A3A7-C415C4436DFD@.microsoft.com...
> Anyone:
> Is it possible to install the SQL Server 2000 Reporting Services
> design
> component for Visual Studio 2003 into Visual Studio 2005 Express to design
> reports that will be deployed to Reporting Services running on SQL Server
> 2000? Thank you in advance for your time.|||I have an MSDN subscription and just installed both SQL Server 2005 Beta
tools and Visual Studio 2005 Beta 2 - I'm assuming:
1.) That SQL Server 2005 has a Report Designer
2.) That the SQL Server 2005 Report Designer will plug into Visual
Studio 2005
3.) That the SQL Server 2005 Report Designer inside of Visual Studio
2005 will work on SQL Server 2000 Databases
4.) That there is some way of importing reports designed in SQL Server
2000 Report Designer into the SQL Server 2005 Report Designer.
Could you tell me which of these are true?
"Albert Yen [MSFT]" wrote:
> No, this is not possible. RS 2000 Report Designer requires VS 2003.
> --
> Albert Yen
> SQL Server Reporting Services
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
> "Nikolai Sonin" <NikolaiSonin@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:B5728FFD-6C1A-4C59-A3A7-C415C4436DFD@.microsoft.com...
> > Anyone:
> > Is it possible to install the SQL Server 2000 Reporting Services
> > design
> > component for Visual Studio 2003 into Visual Studio 2005 Express to design
> > reports that will be deployed to Reporting Services running on SQL Server
> > 2000? Thank you in advance for your time.
>
>

Designing reports without Visual Studio .NET 2003

I'm really interested in Reporting Services, but I can't seem to find any
documentation on how to write reports and utilize it without Visual Studio
.NET 2003. Is there any way to do that?
--
Chris Shipley
HSI System Administrator
CAFCA, Inc.
Hartford, CT
http://www.cafca.org
chriss@.crtct.orgHere is some information.
http://www.ReportingServicesFAQ.com/ow.asp?ReportingWithoutVisualStudio
Chris Shipley wrote:
> I'm really interested in Reporting Services, but I can't seem to find any
> documentation on how to write reports and utilize it without Visual Studio
> .NET 2003. Is there any way to do that?
> --
> Chris Shipley
> HSI System Administrator
> CAFCA, Inc.
> Hartford, CT
> http://www.cafca.org
> chriss@.crtct.org
>|||Microsoft also have a sample app for creating RDL.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/rsamples/htm/rss_tutorials_v1_02ua.asp
Combine this with the sample code for accessing the reporting services web
servic
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/rsamples/htm/rss_sampleapps_v1_002q.asp
With these two set of examples you can write a program to create rdl,
publish it to the web service and view it within an application. The
complexity will be trying to generate more complex reports as the sample
provided on msdn only generates simple rdl. Easiest way I found to start
writing code to generate more complex rdl was to use the sample RDL program
to generate a report, load this report in vs.net and make some changes then
compare the modified rdl with your original and retro-fit the changes in to
the code. With a lot of time (and hair pulling) you can ultimately generate
fairly complex RDL.
Hope this helps,
Richard
"Jerry" wrote:
> Here is some information.
> http://www.ReportingServicesFAQ.com/ow.asp?ReportingWithoutVisualStudio
>
> Chris Shipley wrote:
> > I'm really interested in Reporting Services, but I can't seem to find any
> > documentation on how to write reports and utilize it without Visual Studio
> > .NET 2003. Is there any way to do that?
> >
> > --
> > Chris Shipley
> > HSI System Administrator
> > CAFCA, Inc.
> > Hartford, CT
> > http://www.cafca.org
> > chriss@.crtct.org
> >
> >
>|||Hey, thanks for that! See, I have this huge database (1.3+ gb) with over
500 users, but there's no good reporting tool for them. I'm looking for a
way to give them a visual report writing tool, perhaps on the web secured
through SSL. But if they have to use VS.NET to create a report, its not
very cost effective.
Anyone out there know of any resources I can look at to achieve my
objective? I'd utilize SQL Reporting Services, but I don't have VS.NET
either. I suppose if I had to, I could learn RDL, but that doesn't seem an
effective method for users. Maybe someone out there is already writing a
VS.NET program for that purpose! :)
--
Chris Shipley
HSI System Administrator
CAFCA
Hartford, CT
Ph: 860-560-5455
http://www.cafca.org/helpdesk
chriss@.crtct.org
"Jerry" <JerryNY32513@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uvPSGLkBFHA.2568@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Here is some information.
> http://www.ReportingServicesFAQ.com/ow.asp?ReportingWithoutVisualStudio
>
> Chris Shipley wrote:
> > I'm really interested in Reporting Services, but I can't seem to find
any
> > documentation on how to write reports and utilize it without Visual
Studio
> > .NET 2003. Is there any way to do that?
> >
> > --
> > Chris Shipley
> > HSI System Administrator
> > CAFCA, Inc.
> > Hartford, CT
> > http://www.cafca.org
> > chriss@.crtct.org
> >
> >|||Several partners provide applications for RS 2000 that will allow the
creation of reports without using VS.NET. Some of them provide web-based
designers, some of them provide tools integrated e.g. into Office. You may
want to check:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/reporting/partners/softwareapps.asp
If you can wait till RS 2005, it will provide an additional report design
tool called "Report Builder". It is a stand-alone application (independent
of the VS.NET report designer) and is focused on end-users. It allows them
to easily create reports without needing to design queries or writing
expressions. Report Builder was briefly shown as one of the new features in
RS 2005 in this webcast:
http://msevents.microsoft.com/cui/eventdetail.aspx?eventid=1032263305&culture=en-us
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"Chris Shipley" <chriss@.crtct.org> wrote in message
news:%23HOyS7sBFHA.1408@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Hey, thanks for that! See, I have this huge database (1.3+ gb) with over
> 500 users, but there's no good reporting tool for them. I'm looking for a
> way to give them a visual report writing tool, perhaps on the web secured
> through SSL. But if they have to use VS.NET to create a report, its not
> very cost effective.
> Anyone out there know of any resources I can look at to achieve my
> objective? I'd utilize SQL Reporting Services, but I don't have VS.NET
> either. I suppose if I had to, I could learn RDL, but that doesn't seem
an
> effective method for users. Maybe someone out there is already writing a
> VS.NET program for that purpose! :)
> --
> Chris Shipley
> HSI System Administrator
> CAFCA
> Hartford, CT
> Ph: 860-560-5455
> http://www.cafca.org/helpdesk
> chriss@.crtct.org
> "Jerry" <JerryNY32513@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:uvPSGLkBFHA.2568@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Here is some information.
> >
> > http://www.ReportingServicesFAQ.com/ow.asp?ReportingWithoutVisualStudio
> >
> >
> >
> > Chris Shipley wrote:
> > > I'm really interested in Reporting Services, but I can't seem to find
> any
> > > documentation on how to write reports and utilize it without Visual
> Studio
> > > .NET 2003. Is there any way to do that?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chris Shipley
> > > HSI System Administrator
> > > CAFCA, Inc.
> > > Hartford, CT
> > > http://www.cafca.org
> > > chriss@.crtct.org
> > >
> > >
>|||Thanks Robert.
Is there a beta version of RS 2005?
--
Chris Shipley
HSI System Administrator
CAFCA
Hartford, CT
Ph: 860-560-5455
http://www.cafca.org
chriss@.crtct.org
"Robert Bruckner [MSFT]" <robruc@.online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:uN%23$chyBFHA.1452@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Several partners provide applications for RS 2000 that will allow the
> creation of reports without using VS.NET. Some of them provide web-based
> designers, some of them provide tools integrated e.g. into Office. You may
> want to check:
> http://www.microsoft.com/sql/reporting/partners/softwareapps.asp
> If you can wait till RS 2005, it will provide an additional report design
> tool called "Report Builder". It is a stand-alone application (independent
> of the VS.NET report designer) and is focused on end-users. It allows them
> to easily create reports without needing to design queries or writing
> expressions. Report Builder was briefly shown as one of the new features
in
> RS 2005 in this webcast:
>
http://msevents.microsoft.com/cui/eventdetail.aspx?eventid=1032263305&culture=en-us
> --
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
> "Chris Shipley" <chriss@.crtct.org> wrote in message
> news:%23HOyS7sBFHA.1408@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > Hey, thanks for that! See, I have this huge database (1.3+ gb) with
over
> > 500 users, but there's no good reporting tool for them. I'm looking for
a
> > way to give them a visual report writing tool, perhaps on the web
secured
> > through SSL. But if they have to use VS.NET to create a report, its not
> > very cost effective.
> >
> > Anyone out there know of any resources I can look at to achieve my
> > objective? I'd utilize SQL Reporting Services, but I don't have VS.NET
> > either. I suppose if I had to, I could learn RDL, but that doesn't seem
> an
> > effective method for users. Maybe someone out there is already writing
a
> > VS.NET program for that purpose! :)
> >
> > --
> > Chris Shipley
> > HSI System Administrator
> > CAFCA
> > Hartford, CT
> > Ph: 860-560-5455
> > http://www.cafca.org/helpdesk
> > chriss@.crtct.org
> >
> > "Jerry" <JerryNY32513@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:uvPSGLkBFHA.2568@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > Here is some information.
> > >
> > >
http://www.ReportingServicesFAQ.com/ow.asp?ReportingWithoutVisualStudio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris Shipley wrote:
> > > > I'm really interested in Reporting Services, but I can't seem to
find
> > any
> > > > documentation on how to write reports and utilize it without Visual
> > Studio
> > > > .NET 2003. Is there any way to do that?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Chris Shipley
> > > > HSI System Administrator
> > > > CAFCA, Inc.
> > > > Hartford, CT
> > > > http://www.cafca.org
> > > > chriss@.crtct.org
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>|||Yes, there is a Beta program for SQL Server 2005 (which includes RS 2005).
More information can be found here:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/2005/default.asp
If you are a MSDN subscriber you should also have access to SQL Server CTPs
(Community Technology Previews). Report Builder is a completely new product
and not yet available in the December CTP, but it will be included in SQL
Server 2005 Beta 3 and very likely already in one of the upcoming CTPs.
--
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"Chris Shipley" <chriss@.crtct.org> wrote in message
news:eApnSOMCFHA.328@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Thanks Robert.
> Is there a beta version of RS 2005?
> --
> Chris Shipley
> HSI System Administrator
> CAFCA
> Hartford, CT
> Ph: 860-560-5455
> http://www.cafca.org
> chriss@.crtct.org
> "Robert Bruckner [MSFT]" <robruc@.online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:uN%23$chyBFHA.1452@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Several partners provide applications for RS 2000 that will allow the
> > creation of reports without using VS.NET. Some of them provide web-based
> > designers, some of them provide tools integrated e.g. into Office. You
may
> > want to check:
> > http://www.microsoft.com/sql/reporting/partners/softwareapps.asp
> >
> > If you can wait till RS 2005, it will provide an additional report
design
> > tool called "Report Builder". It is a stand-alone application
(independent
> > of the VS.NET report designer) and is focused on end-users. It allows
them
> > to easily create reports without needing to design queries or writing
> > expressions. Report Builder was briefly shown as one of the new features
> in
> > RS 2005 in this webcast:
> >
>
http://msevents.microsoft.com/cui/eventdetail.aspx?eventid=1032263305&culture=en-us
> >
> > --
> > This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
> >
> > "Chris Shipley" <chriss@.crtct.org> wrote in message
> > news:%23HOyS7sBFHA.1408@.TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > Hey, thanks for that! See, I have this huge database (1.3+ gb) with
> over
> > > 500 users, but there's no good reporting tool for them. I'm looking
for
> a
> > > way to give them a visual report writing tool, perhaps on the web
> secured
> > > through SSL. But if they have to use VS.NET to create a report, its
not
> > > very cost effective.
> > >
> > > Anyone out there know of any resources I can look at to achieve my
> > > objective? I'd utilize SQL Reporting Services, but I don't have
VS.NET
> > > either. I suppose if I had to, I could learn RDL, but that doesn't
seem
> > an
> > > effective method for users. Maybe someone out there is already
writing
> a
> > > VS.NET program for that purpose! :)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chris Shipley
> > > HSI System Administrator
> > > CAFCA
> > > Hartford, CT
> > > Ph: 860-560-5455
> > > http://www.cafca.org/helpdesk
> > > chriss@.crtct.org
> > >
> > > "Jerry" <JerryNY32513@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:uvPSGLkBFHA.2568@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > > > Here is some information.
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.ReportingServicesFAQ.com/ow.asp?ReportingWithoutVisualStudio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Chris Shipley wrote:
> > > > > I'm really interested in Reporting Services, but I can't seem to
> find
> > > any
> > > > > documentation on how to write reports and utilize it without
Visual
> > > Studio
> > > > > .NET 2003. Is there any way to do that?
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Chris Shipley
> > > > > HSI System Administrator
> > > > > CAFCA, Inc.
> > > > > Hartford, CT
> > > > > http://www.cafca.org
> > > > > chriss@.crtct.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

Friday, February 17, 2012

Design Issue

I posted this also in the Visual Basic section:

I'm working with: VB6 and SqlServer 2000

I'm creating an application that requires users to answer several questions and based on answers to those questions, certain conditions result, such as the ability to view certain sections of the questionaire and/or more questions appear and/or some questions become irrelavent and/or mathematical formulas work one way or another based on an answer to a question.

Here is an example:
The user has to answer a question. For this particular question, if the user chooses Yes then I must "Activate" all of the questions that are flagged with the code X. If the user chooses No then I must "Activate" all of the questions that are flagged with Y and "Deactivate" all of the questions that are flagged with Z.

I'm coming across a design issue (both with the application itself and the database). What is the best way to store all of this in a database? Should I store the questions along with the list of possible answers and their corresponding conditions in the database as well as the actual data for each record (each questionaire)? Should I be referencing the database to populate all of my questions on my VB form or should I manually put labels and combo boxes containing the questions and possible answers on my form? Or should I be using another technology to store my questions and conditions OR my results, such as XML?

I looking for suggestions. I want to optimize my program as much as possible. I don't want to slow it down by making several calls to the database, but I want to make sure I'm also taking away optimization by hardcoding everything.

Thanks for your time and help!Should I store the questions along with the list of possible answers and their corresponding conditions in the database as well as the actual data for each record (each questionaire)? Should I be referencing the database to populate all of my questions on my VB form or should I manually put labels and combo boxes containing the questions and possible answers on my form?
I would always choose storing reference data in a database over hard-coding in the application.|||blindman,

thanks for responding. i had a feeling that would be the best option. i'm still a bit confused on how to logically put everything in the database.

MORE INFO:

Picture an application with an explorer style view. On the left in folders are different sections of a questionaire. On the right side will be the corresponding questions to that section. Each section, each question and it's corresponding possible answers, the controls that they will be held in (VB) will all need to be in the database. I'm still confused on how to setup tables relating each part...There is the data that will be stored to set up the screen, then there is data that will be stored for each record (each questionaire's answers, so to speak).

Thanks again!|||questionaire
section
question
answers
...but what do you mean , "the controls that they will be held in (VB) will all need to be in the database"? I hope you are just referring to the lookup lists...|||i think i was thinking too much. Seeing your code example has helped me clear up a lot. Thank you!...I was adding in a bunch of tables that didn't need to be there. The structure above makes a lot more sense, and will work with all of the lookup tables that I'll need. Again Thank you!...it always helps to have another set of eyes looking at the same issue.|||Again Thank you!...it always helps to have another set of eyes looking at the same issue. blind ones at that